Curse

I MP I · Apr 28, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Because Arena Net sucks, they have no clue what their doing, sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game. Izzy nerfs random skills. Gaile talks about things she can't comprehend. Ragina doesn't even post, what is she there for? If Arena Net would just add the things I suggested Guild wars would be 5 times better minimum.

Imo, you should apply for a job at ArenaNet. You seem to know what to do.

HuntMaster Avatar · Apr 29, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

He would probably be laughed out of the interview.

Toxage · Apr 29, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by I MP I

Imo, you should apply for a job at ArenaNet. You seem to know what to do.

Nah, I wouldn't want to work with such stupid people.

I would rather work for Blizzard.

Thizzle · Apr 29, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

One thing to make clear and it seems we have to do this everytime we have a grind QQing thread. There is not one thing that is FORCED GRINDING in GW. You do not need any PVE only skills, nor do you need any titles. All they are are for those that want something more to do than just farming for $$ as farming grind has been in the game since day one, but, funny you don't see them complaining about the farming grinds like they do about the title grinds or the skills grinds. Nevertheless none of them are required for completion of the game or chapters. Thus all the QQing about grind is just because they don't have TIME to grind like the rest of us, and if they can't do it they don't want others to be able to do it either cause they think some of us get unfair advantages with these PVE only skills or titles. None of them are unfair because they aren't required by the game.

Now if you want to cry, cry about your puberescent types that won't take anyone unless they have these skills or titles, it's them that have issues, it's not the skills or titles themselves. It's elitism, it's selfishness, it's gloating, and powercrazed fanatics that make grind titles or grind skills SEEM like they are needed. Then it's the weak of mind the QQers that ALLOW them to do this to them. By being weak minded all they can do is cry and boo hoo and bellyache that Joe Blow has got things I don't have time to get waaaaahhhh waaaaaahhhh boo hooo Cry. lol

You make a strong point about you are not force to grind which is true, but if you even want to think about doing the DoA then you best have a very high rank in lightbringer and that is where the grinding begins. You could do it without any titles at all and it only makes the game harder so the only logical thing to do is get the titles that give you a better bonus.

You still think you don't need to grind? They're are idiots that I've seen in AB asking for r5+ (allegiance not hero!) and that titles means absolutely nothing... I mean nothing! Then I tell this player that and he flashes me with bambi. 180 fame isn't something to gloat about IMO. I'm not trying to QQ about these idiots, but this is what I mean everyone has the mindset that the more titles gives you a bigger e-penis. This is all a good mixture for selfish, arrogant, and egotistical players.

One thing I can handle and gives me a reason to put up with things like this is no monthly charge, you can't beat that.

Friar Khan · Apr 29, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Jeff Strain honestly expected people to transition to PvP after doing everything in prophecies/factions. Oops.

PvP was definitely the profecies end-game. I'm sure this has been said numerous times before on this forum but guild wars wasn't originally designed to sustain PvEers interest in PvE which is why the PvE system isn't as compelling as it is in many other games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think that there have been some nice additions to GW, but some of the titles, particularly the PVE Skill ones were a really bad idea overall.

I agree with this generally. GW has had many added features which have basically no bad side-effects (e.g. templates). PvE titles intended to appease the PvE community's desire for more reasons to keep playing, but the cost has been the shifting this community's focus toward grind.

The easiest way to sustain a pve playerbase without constantly adding new content is by adding grind. Since Anet doesn't seem to have the business model to support endless PvE content I think/hope in GW2 they'll try to improve the accessibility and general appeal of pvp for PvEers who're looking for an endgame.

Oddly they could achieve much the same result in GW if they made Kurzick/Luxon points accrue significantly faster through AB than through HFFF. Granted they'd need to increase the faction cap beyond 10k, but that shouldn't be difficult.

Anyway, I hate how grind focussed the game has become because

I don't like always feeling tempted to use Ursan, max pve titles, and get vanity armor to fit in and/or prove I'm an experienced player
When players grind they're not playing the game for fun as much as they would otherwise, instead they're trying to achieve as much as possible as quickly as possible. The fact that many other people are playing the game and not having as much fun as they used to makes the community as a whole more disgruntled. Even if a person is having lots of fun in the game, the discontent of the community worsens the playing environment since this is a MMO game.

Just getting my $ 0.02 in.

Thizzle · Apr 29, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

I searched grinding like all the people who said there are tons of these threads and the first page maybe had one thing that totally made sense. Make more titles account based. It makes total sense, I don't think anyone with more than 5 characters wants to take them all through EoTN.

DivineEnvoy · Apr 29, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Because Arena Net sucks, they have no clue what their doing, sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game. Izzy nerfs random skills. Gaile talks about things she can't comprehend. Ragina doesn't even post, what is she there for? If Arena Net would just add the things I suggested Guild wars would be 5 times better minimum.

If Anet is truly as horrible as you have described over the last fifty posts of yours, is it possible for you to prove that you can do better than merely baseless claims?

Here are some questions to get you started:
How much time will you dedicate yourself into programming these games?
What programming language do you know?
What degrees of Computer Science or software-related majors do you have?
What will you do to keep the veterans of the game still facinated and dedicated into playing?

Tyla · Apr 29, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Because Arena Net sucks, they have no clue what their doing, sometimes I wonder if they even play their own game. Izzy nerfs random skills. Gaile talks about things she can't comprehend. Ragina doesn't even post, what is she there for? If Arena Net would just add the things I suggested Guild wars would be 5 times better minimum.

Instead of adding things, how about just rerolling back to Proph only?

There isn't alot of things that are possible to do that will bring the game back to it's golden age, unless it's a significant change. Even then, no amount of change will stop this game from dying.

And if you ask me, I think NCSoft have done a good job maintaining what is left of Guild Wars. Although they did hurt themselves buisness-wise a few times.

Bront · Apr 29, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Nope sure don't see you and so many others here (elitists) think that just because you don't pug or you can't get in a pug (probably because of your attitudes) that others can't get in any pugs either unless they have some silly title. Welp I don't have a single title and I get into pugs just fine every single day that I want to. People on here need to get off the idea that only what you do think or say is what happens in the game all the time. I've seen differently all too often and know from my own experience there are many people out there willing to pug without Ursans or having to have silly titles. Been in them done that....nuff said GWG elitist forum members don't know all. <grin>

depends on where you PUG.

Pug in the normal missions, and you can get in with just about anything, though some players I've heard say "Don't take the Sin/Paragon/Mesmer" (The last was funny as I was a mesmer in the group at the time).

PUG the elite areas, and it's Required builds (or now ursan) for a lot of teams. Doesn't mean everyone will be that way, but many are.

cellardweller · Apr 29, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I'm paraphrasing the essence of the pro-grind arguements as I have read them - If I've misrepresented, feel free to point them out.

"The grind in guildwars is good because other games have much more"
- This logical fallacy is known as relative privation. The existance of a something that is worse, does not make the subject better.

"Guildwars is an RPG and therefore needs grind"
- This is the package deal fallacy. Just because two things have been associated with one another in the past does not mean that the association is a good thing.

"All grind is optional because you can complete the story without the pve skills"
- This is the fallacy of the undistributed middle. Yes, you can complete the story line without the PvE skills, however the storyline is a only a small subset of the PvE game.

"Grind is fun"
- This is the only valid argument I've heard for why guildwars grind should exist and is countered by the equally valid argument "Grind is not fun".

wu is me · Apr 29, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

but of course grind by definition is anything but fun.

U prolly mis interpreted the statement "Me Like Whacky Whacky" somewhere

Xx_Sorin_xX · Apr 29, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Nah, I wouldn't want to work with such stupid people.

I would rather work for Blizzard.

i lol'd

but really, do we need another one of these threads, or did the last one get closed (again)?

Bront · Apr 29, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Nah, I wouldn't want to work with such stupid people.

I would rather work for Blizzard.

Aren't you the one who's hinted that you DO work for A-net?

Friar Khan · Apr 29, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

I'm paraphrasing the essence of the pro-grind arguements as I have read them - If I've misrepresented, feel free to point them out.

"The grind in guildwars is good because other games have much more"
- This logical fallacy is known as relative privation. The existance of a something that is worse, does not make the subject better.

"Guildwars is an RPG and therefore needs grind"
- This is the package deal fallacy. Just because two things have been associated with one another in the past does not mean that the association is a good thing.

"All grind is optional because you can complete the story without the pve skills"
- This is the fallacy of the undistributed middle. Yes, you can complete the story line without the PvE skills, however the storyline is a only a small subset of the PvE game.

"Grind is fun"
- This is the only valid argument I've heard for why guildwars grind should exist and is countered by the equally valid argument "Grind is not fun".

Quoted For the Thread Win

Master Knightfall · Apr 29, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

LOL

You must be new here, let me fill you in.

Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain all said Guild Wars would be centered around PvP. Guild Wars is currently center around PvE.

Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain said that Guild Wars would have no grinding. Look at Sunspear/EOTN rep grind which give powerful PvE bonuses to mindless grinding.

Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain have changed their minds numerous times.

Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain plan on giving titles in Guild Wars 2 huge bonuses. Which is why they added them to Guild Wars 2!

Stop living under a rock, thanks <3

Quoted again for truth. And do you notice it's always the same handful of people that say something is dead or that Pugging suks and you have to grind. lol Same people over n over doing the disco whine <quack quack> Maybe they should try playing at times that aren't prime time when you don't have a lot of 8 year olds playing. I play from 10pm at night central time up until 230pm if I want to (when the 8 year olds get out of school) perhaps that is why I don't often see bad or suky pugs. But, it's not the pugging to me it's the times you play and of course if you play during prime time you are going to find more 8 year olds and make pugs look bad. Not my problem, I don't have those issues. Most of the people I group with are late 20's and early 30's at least that's what they tell me and definitely don't act like 8 year olds drawing penises on the screen or going off doing autistic things.

I do look for grind in GW2 though, they have proven that people actually like it even with the handful that complain about it online. Complainers always whine of course and that's why it might look like a majority of people don't like grind, but, the population of posters online at any given site isn't any quality representation of the population of the game as a whole. It's merely what that website population thinks and once again those are usually always whinners and criers and babies, those that would throw temper tantrums because the game isn't exactly how they want it to be.

Just tah let yah know though I'm always for any kind of improvements to the game even if it's not what 100% of the population wants, everything added to the game is something someone enjoys and no game is ever going to please everyone in the game all the time. Just have to find what you like and play that part of it. When you no longer find any fun in the game, MOVE ON your whines are rarely going to change anything....notice grind is still here and even more of it was introduced when GWEN/EOTN was released <grin> You'll see more in GW2 if you buy it.

Quote:

PUG the elite areas, and it's Required builds (or now ursan) for a lot of teams. Doesn't mean everyone will be that way, but many are

No not really required builds, but, a build you must use if you are "IMPATIENT". You can get a pug anywhere provided you are willing to invest the time to either form a group without those silly skills or find one that is forming. Let's face it the one truth is that most people are IMPATIENT, don't want to wait, want to play NOW right NOW no WAITING, so, those types of people will do whatever it takes to get in a group NOW. So, it's not a REQUIREMENT, it's a CHOICE based on PATIENCE. The only way a SKILL/BUILD would be a REQUIREMENT would be that the mission npc wouldn't let you enter it unless you had those skils or build. Dragon arena is a REQUIRED build...most of the other areas in the rest of the game are not. There are exceptions where some missions REQUIRE a certain HERO, but, not a skill or a build on your bar.

Toxage · Apr 29, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Aren't you the one who's hinted that you DO work for A-net?

I didn't officially work for Arena Net. I was a tester for Guild Wars 2 for a brief period of time, but quit. Guild Wars 2 is very similar to another mmorpg that shall not be named, and is heavily grind based. Not to mention I hate how much Guild Wars 2 rewards Guild Wars titles.

Which is why I know so much about Guild Wars 2, and the second I post anything about it, it gets deleted. Arena Net is trying to keep Guild Wars 2 in the dark. Which is why this post will probably be deleted as well. Hopefully someone out there will read this...

Bront · Apr 29, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

I didn't officially work for Arena Net. I was a tester for Guild Wars 2 for a brief period of time, but quit. Guild Wars 2 is very similar to another mmorpg that shall not be named, and is heavily grind based. Not to mention I hate how much Guild Wars 2 rewards Guild Wars titles.

Which is why I know so much about Guild Wars 2, and the second I post anything about it, it gets deleted. Arena Net is trying to keep Guild Wars 2 in the dark. Which is why this post will probably be deleted as well. Hopefully someone out there will read this...

Or you're violating the NDA...

Or you're lying and no posts were deleted...

They're not even close to Beta testing yet (I'm doubtful they're in Alpha testing yet), so nothing in the game should be taken seriously anyway. It'll change.

lacasner · Apr 29, 2008, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Definetly Grind wars, with build wars coming in a close second.

Toxage · Apr 29, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Or you're violating the NDA...

Or you're lying and no posts were deleted...

They're not even close to Beta testing yet (I'm doubtful they're in Alpha testing yet), so nothing in the game should be taken seriously anyway. It'll change.

Meh.

Wrong about testers.

Arena Net has roughly 1000 testers, to test their current content.

Arena Net Beta is way off, Beta is done very close to the release of the game. I.E Age Of Conan just had their PvP weekend beta last weekend and is going to be released soon.

Alpha is done way in advance.

I've said to much!

<.< >.>

Njaiguni Blaze · Apr 29, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Toxage, you make me lol.

And even if one person says anything about GW2, it's not going to effect my judgement of it.